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mogunn
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1307
Location: SF Bay
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 Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| windoggie wrote: | | And Mac, I think it was a very early mollusk. |
With a dewlap?
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| It was my thought that that specific dinosaur was a Fickasaurus. A rather unusual creature that was known to be incredibly stubborn and difficult to deal with. Much of this had to do with a its extremely thick skull and a phenomenally small brain.
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Jaipal
Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 77
Location: Maui
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| stefaans2005 wrote: | | ladies i havent read any of the replies on this forum but just wanted to chip in that i was there that day and landed the guys kite you are talking about. he seemed perfectly fine it was his first time there and had a good time. no harm done. |
Hey,
I'm glad to hear he is ok. Good time is a bit questionable.
Bad luck to come to Waddell and have an accident on on your first day. Let alone hit someone who has been there many hundreds of times. But that is beside the point. Any accident is bad. One in the water is really bad.
I'm still up for buying him a beer and we'll talk about Waddell being a down the line spot. In fact, I'll buy a beer for anyone who wants to talk about Waddell being a down the line spot.
Come on back to the beach Bro.
And what in bloody hell happened to this thread?
-Jaipal
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jweaver
Joined: 10 May 1997
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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woof
Dogma, that's what happened. I'm glad Jaipal can CLOSE THE SUBJECT for dog's (I mean God's) sake. And cool that the other guy is ok. Jaipal, you're too modest.....pretty obvious that if it was the guy's first time out, he probably just blew it.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20936
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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I thought I was through with this thread, but I’ll respond to Josh’s rational, adult approach -- despite its insults -- compared to that of the children here.
| jsampiero wrote: | | there are NOT waves in the Gorge. … I kind of doubt that any of those NOAA, Weather Channel, or oceanographic experts would side with you ... in the technical sense, it's not waves |
I began calling Gorge bumps “waves” for one very specific reason: there was so much misinformation and confusing homemade nomenclature running loose in this thread about water terrain that I had to explain and start using the correct technical terminology so we had a common basis of communication. NOAA, et.al. are not siding with ME, Josh; I’m siding with -- i.e., quoting -- THEM in calling Gorge bumps “waves”. That was all explained in the thread you claimed to have read. But what the terrain is called is completely irrelevant to this thread, as long as we quit making up the terminology for and behavior of the water.
| jsampiero wrote: | | embellished by what most wave-sailors here realize are unlikely claims as to how you (or anybody) can perform in said conditions. |
Josh, I just don’t understand. Not only did I type every word of mine in this thread very carefully and precisely, but I’ve also gone over it repeatedly to ensure there’s no embellishment. (When I was a WS mag sole writer and technical editor, I would not publicly accuse anyone of making stuff up. I left that to the magazine owners.) Your own magazine discusses it and Gorge videos show it; see below.
Even if I were lying through my teeth about my own sailing, I see several others doing it even way out east and at the Hatchery I see dozens doing it even in its narrow sections of good bumps. Many of them are FAR better than I am, and that’s not even counting the great sailors at Kodak Point.
I don’t see why anyone thinks any decent B&J sailor can’t smack a crest and instantly carve or even “bounce” a 90-145 degree turn WAY up on one rail, often with the fin clearing the water, sometimes slashing a full 180 degrees. The latter is called a jibe if the sail is also flipped, a mere cutback if not. Any of those is aerial if the board clears the water as it leaves the crest. All it takes is a board that turns off the tail, good speed, and up to four hand and/or foot inputs I’ve often described here … stuff every adequate wave sailor knows. I don’t understand why that sounds even difficult, let alone impossible, in “onshore” conditions in good terrain -- the Gorge norm. Hell, we’re backside to the wave and the wind; what’s difficult about oversheeting, thrusting the mast forward and down into the turn, pulling our back heel (in its strap) upwind and pointing our back toe, and maybe adding an aggro aft heel thrust into the lip to add an overhead wall of water as we leave the lip? I’m just a good Gorge sailor, not an excellent one, so if I can do it MANY times every reach, certainly thousands of others can. After all, it’s like initiating a jibe except that my back foot is in its strap and I’m hooked in … a problem if I expect a 90-degree cutback and accidentally hit 180.
There’s your cutback.
After a cutback we’re doing … what? Right, heading down that face in a broad reach under full power. Now tell me … what’s challenging about carving a 90-degree to 145-degree turn from down the face to up the face, especially with the wind at your back at mid-turn? Isn’t that a bottom turn, even if we’re backside to the face because that’s where the wind is coming from? (I DID say, several times, that there’s the obvios difference in wind-to-wave orientation.) One can do it casually, or one can plant the windward rail and jam a much tighter turn, whether on the back of the lower wave, in the bottom of the trough, or halfway down the face we’re on.
There’s your bottom turn. Any B&J sailor can do it, some tighter than others, but there’s nothing inherently challenging about it. The challenge -- and the thrill -- is in doing it up on the windward rail, overpowered, WFO, on the face.
Now, where does that bottom turn leave us? Right; heading right into the next cutback at high speed.
At the Hatchery on an uncrowded off-season day or on a midsummer dawn patrol, one can link a few of those before running out of humps. Out east the zone often runs all the way across the river, allowing 10-20 or more linked turns like those until one has to slow down or straighten out to catch his breath. Jake’s “Gorge Video”, at Title 7, shows some of it, and your own magazine has published articles -- by “other liars” I guess the people here would label them -- named Dunkerbeck and McKercher, among others, discussing cutbacks and bottom turns in onshore conditions and bottom turns on flat water.
Is this as exciting, as challenging, or the same as DTL sailing in breaking, bigger, and/or steeper ocean waves? Of course not. Are there similarities in paths and/or space requirements, which is all I’ve claimed? You tell me … and the hundreds of other Gorge bump sailors who wish to hell that more people would give them a little space to carve some swell or even just jibe on a sweet mid-river face without being blocked by some wannabe drag racer hanging on his aft lee quarter. Izzat too much to ask?
| jsampiero wrote: | | It's interesting that you admit to having only rarely sailed waves, yet take such an dogmatic point of view on “the subject” [?]. It's kind of like saying, "Hey, I'm very inexperienced in this subject, but I refuse to change my point of view, despite the fact I'm the *only* one who thinks so. Clearly, those other sailors who have hundreds of more hours in the waves don't know a thing about the Gorge." |
That makes no sense to anyone who has actually read my posts in this thread. “The subject” Harris52 and I are trying to make is that “room should be given to carve to both wavesailors and swellriders because as sailors, we should all be aware of others intentions and desires and adhere to the principles of common courtesy and awareness.” Sure as hell I’m not inexperienced at carving on Gorge bumps after a hundred thousand miles of doing it … but you knew that because you read the thread … and anyone who thinks a good Gorge bump sailor can’t smack a lip and bottom turn all over hellenback, well, as you more or less said, “doesn’t know much about the Gorge”.
| jsampiero wrote: | | I'm a little curious as to have you've been windsurfing for so long and had so few wavesailing opportunities |
I’ve explained at length why I’ve had minimal experience at true DTL ocean wave sailing. In a nutshell, after driving tens of thousands of miles and flying another tens of thousands of miles in search of wave sailing with only a few hours of it to show for it, I quit trying. I’d rather actually GO windsurfing than beat my head against the windshield HOPING for surf. It’s why I don’t start my engine anymore until the wind breaks 20 mph: skunks suck. It could be argued that I’ve given up more for my WSing than anyone I know (e.g., 21 years’ senior engineering management pay, chemotherapy), and it’s up to me what level of effort I’m still willing to put out. If I see some wind and surf, I’ll do it again. Driving thousands more miles in search of it? No way.
More important, whether I have ever sailed in breaking waves is of no relevance to my goal in this thread. The only point I’ve tried to make, from my very first post in this thread, is that like hundreds of other Gorge sailors, I’d appreciate some consideration and some room to change directions quickly and often just because it’s fun … just like ocean wave sailors do. Is that too goddamn much for us to ask? Wave sailors and kiters demand extra space; can’t we at least ASK for it, for God’s sake?
Last edited by isobars on Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I'm so sorry, I forgot to mention earlier that a Fickasaursus is known to be egotistical, self-centered, and even more importantly, they religiously follow a ridiculously bold outward mantra that it's "all about me". However, one must be watchful of its desire to be the victim here, even if no one else cares.
Holy smokes! We have a real piece of work right here on our local forum.
Unbelievable!
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mogunn
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1307
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: Confessions of a mad man... |
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| Isobarf wrote: |
(paraphrased)"Bless me Father, for I have sinned mightily--compared to that of the children here." |
God {or, insert your diety of choice} may forgive you but, you owe the children...
(Sorry Jaipal...no disrespect meant to you or your thread. Glad the kiter and you are OK.)
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gerritt
Joined: 06 May 1998
Posts: 632
Location: Redwood City, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: |
I don’t see why anyone thinks any decent B&J sailor can’t smack a crest and instantly carve or even “bounce” a 90-145 degree turn WAY up on one rail, often with the fin clearing the water, sometimes slashing a full 180 degrees. The latter is called a jibe if the sail is also flipped, a mere cutback if not. Any of those is aerial if the board clears the water as it leaves the crest. All it takes is a board that turns off the tail, good speed, and up to four hand and/or foot inputs I’ve often described here … stuff every adequate wave sailor knows. I don’t understand why that sounds even difficult, let alone impossible, in “onshore” conditions in good terrain -- the Gorge norm. Hell, we’re backside to the wave and the wind; what’s difficult about oversheeting, thrusting the mast forward and down into the turn, pulling our back heel (in its strap) upwind and pointing our back toe, and maybe adding an aggro aft heel thrust into the lip to add an overhead wall of water as we leave the lip? I’m just a good Gorge sailor, not an excellent one, so if I can do it MANY times every reach, certainly thousands of others can. After all, it’s like initiating a jibe except that my back foot is in its strap and I’m hooked in … a problem if I expect a 90-degree cutback and accidentally hit 180.
There’s your cutback.
After a cutback we’re doing … what? Right, heading down that face in a broad reach under full power. Now tell me … what’s challenging about carving a 90-degree to 145-degree turn from down the face to up the face, especially with the wind at your back at mid-turn? Isn’t that a bottom turn, even if we’re backside to the face because that’s where the wind is coming from? (I DID say, several times, that there’s the obvios difference in wind-to-wave orientation.) One can do it casually, or one can plant the windward rail and jam a much tighter turn, whether on the back of the lower wave, in the bottom of the trough, or halfway down the face we’re on.
There’s your bottom turn. Any B&J sailor can do it, some tighter than others, but there’s nothing inherently challenging about it. The challenge -- and the thrill -- is in doing it up on the windward rail, overpowered, WFO, on the face.
Now, where does that bottom turn leave us? |
It leaves YOU confused. The rest of us correct. You just described perfectly UP THE LINE SAILING. There is no DTL sailing in the gorge.
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ShreddinEd
Joined: 27 Mar 1994
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | I thought I was through with this thread, but I’ll respond to Josh’s rational, adult approach -- despite its insults -- compared to that of the children here.
[major snippage]
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I just j**zed in my pants.

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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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"Wave sailors and kiters demand extra space; can’t we at least ASK for it, for God’s sake?"
We? I think the only fresh water sailor asking for extra space is "you". Actually, its just more of that "it's all about me" thing. If you count the number of posts to this thread and literally measure the space that you wasted, nobody else here comes even remotely close. The thing that's so patently pathetic, is that after all that effort spent on your part, nobody is even remotely convinced that your argument is worthy or valid.
I know it's difficult, but you might want to ponder that for a while. Then maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to see how "out of the loop" you truly are.
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